The Day of Thunder

Kaijarisuigyo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:47 am

In the future, the fight against the Harbinger will be remembered by making, and eventually breaking, papier-mâché roly-poly toys.

This is to represent how they (well, mostly their troops, but let's not sweat the details) kept being sent prone, stood up, only to fall again.

Yes, it's once again one of these battles where we're abusing the Prone status.

Because -10 to ATN and inability to stand up and make a complex action in the same round does throw a wrench into many strategies.

Hey, we did go in with half our party being team Water/team Swole, so that's actually fitting! XD

The Great Chumbawamba Incident of Year 30.

"The Nezumi said she wasn't too good at a straight up fight. So we took 'em at their word and rolled her like a cheap perm."

Sugri wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:34 pm

The Great Chumbawamba Incident of Year 30.

This made me laugh, thanks XD

Haka Tae-soo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:30 pm

Hey, we did go in with half our party being team Water/team Swole, so that's actually fitting! XD

High Strength does encourage bushi to go for Knockdown and Grapple... as those are (IIRC) the only advantage they have over a High Agility/Reflexes character calling raises for damages.

Kaijarisuigyo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:11 pm

High Strength does encourage bushi to go for Knockdown and Grapple... as those are (IIRC) the only advantage they have over a High Agility/Reflexes character calling raises for damages.

Yup. Traits could use some balancing, but such is the way of 4e!

Why get fancy when you can just hit things hard.

Cause you can hit things hard with style

Haka Tae-soo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:49 pm

Kaijarisuigyo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:11 pm

High Strength does encourage bushi to go for Knockdown and Grapple... as those are (IIRC) the only advantage they have over a High Agility/Reflexes character calling raises for damages.

Yup. Traits could use some balancing, but such is the way of 4e!

The temptation to turn the splat book into 4.5e is real

Haka Tae-soo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:49 pm

Kaijarisuigyo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:11 pm

High Strength does encourage bushi to go for Knockdown and Grapple... as those are (IIRC) the only advantage they have over a High Agility/Reflexes character calling raises for damages.

Yup. Traits could use some balancing, but such is the way of 4e!

Just start by changing Iai completely.

Akodo Kenji wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:35 pm

Haka Tae-soo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:49 pm

Kaijarisuigyo wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:11 pm

High Strength does encourage bushi to go for Knockdown and Grapple... as those are (IIRC) the only advantage they have over a High Agility/Reflexes character calling raises for damages.

Yup. Traits could use some balancing, but such is the way of 4e!

Just start by changing Iai completely.

Not wrong

"It's central to the culture... and also requires a flowchart to run, and lends itself to HORRIFYING abuses.

Damn kids these days.

You arrive and the thing is already over!

Jiyo Sora wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:54 pm

"It's central to the culture... and also requires a flowchart to run, and lends itself to HORRIFYING abuses.

Mostly it just forces bushi to spread their stats and exp even more thin. Which is one of the major downside to them in general. You need just about every stat.

Duels should just be like the CCG: Kenshinzen with magical swords challenging random nobodies over imaginary insults so they can show how honorable their clan is!

Wait, actually, no, let's not do that.

Though, there's a lesson there. The CCG needed its duels to be unbalanced, otherwise they would have been just plain bad. Using one of your actions for one of your characters to end up in disarray wasn't exactly a smart move. So the duel had to either be very easily winnable for the challenger, or the consequences of it worth the gamble.

The RPG still has that dilemma to a degree. You want your duelists to be better at duels than non duelists, otherwise what's the point. But at the same time, you don't want non duelists to not have any chance when they are challenged to duels, because, where's the fun with that? It's judgement of heavens, not judgement of the character build.

Maybe an additional rule that the honor and co you get is heftily reduced if you win a duel as a challenger with too high a margin, as you are indeed seen as dealing with enemies beyond your concern. So the challenger is encouraged to not necessarily pick their best dice, taking a risk in the process.

Yes, I'm always trying to shoehorn in mechanisms about not picking the best dice, but instead the right dice to be as close as possible from a given TN, while still equalling or bypassing it.

I mean that just puts the better duelist waiting for the second duelist and picking dice that let him win and not lose honor. But even beyond that you run the risk of the better dueler winning anyways and mocking the loser. Since he really even didn't have to try.

For the most part though, school's make better duelists. Making it more viable for duelist schools to participate in combat, and combat schools to participate in dueling is what i mean to address by changing iai. Not just half of it. Because as it stands with design... Iai might as well be something courtiers do, and bushi just get left out of the equation altogether.

I remember Akodo Toshigure in Winter Court III.

Poor guy was (according to the Second City boxed set) meant to be a feared duelist.

Lost every single iai duel he got into the whole damn game.

(Also, shout out to 5th edition finding a way to make dueling even worse, somehow)

The fact that only about two bushi schools directly reference dueling (Kakita and Mirumoto) while a third (Shiba) actually encourages a high Void and lets you situationally cheat at any one roll left everybody else out in the cold without brutal XP expenditures.

The problem is, it's meant to be something literally any bushi can do, but somehow it uses a different skill entirely than, say, using your damn sword in any other circumstance.

Jiyo Sora wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:28 am

I remember Akodo Toshigure in Winter Court III.

Poor guy was (according to the Second City boxed set) meant to be a feared duelist.

Lost every single iai duel he got into the whole damn game.

(Also, shout out to 5th edition finding a way to make dueling even worse, somehow)

The fact that only about two bushi schools directly reference dueling (Kakita and Mirumoto) while a third (Shiba) actually encourages a high Void and lets you situationally cheat at any one roll left everybody else out in the cold without brutal XP expenditures.

The problem is, it's meant to be something literally any bushi can do, but somehow it uses a different skill entirely than, say, using your damn sword in any other circumstance.

Thats why the best duelist school in 3E was a Crab school. The one that replaced everything with Willpower haha

Jiyo Sora wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:28 am

(Also, shout out to 5th edition finding a way to make dueling even worse, somehow)

5th ed is the very definition of hell paved with paved good intentions. You get the idea of what they were trying to do, the genuine intent to improve things... And the result is... Unbelievable.

For example, the idea of both duelists betting on something is interesting. Like, you could indeed keep the assessment round where both contestants are scanning each other, then everyone secretly chooses a ring, and then there's a rock paper scissors thing: If you picked a ring that's strong against the other ring, you get a non negligible bonus. With the caveat it might encourage you to pick a ring in which you are less mechanically strong, risking being at a greater disadvantage if you chose poorly.

The implementation of that idea in 5ed however is... Let's be charitable and not talk about it.

Akodo Kenji wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:11 am

For the most part though, school's make better duelists. Making it more viable for duelist schools to participate in combat, and combat schools to participate in dueling is what i mean to address by changing iai. Not just half of it. Because as it stands with design... Iai might as well be something courtiers do, and bushi just get left out of the equation altogether.

Jiyo Sora wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:28 am

The problem is, it's meant to be something literally any bushi can do, but somehow it uses a different skill entirely than, say, using your damn sword in any other circumstance.

I recall seeing an adjustment that made Iaijutsu a focus of any Weapon Skill. Or did I dream that?

Also, Sora: